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  • #76
    Looks like a perfect fit, hope it performs as nice as she looks
    1980 Glasply 2400 Cuddy I/O, 2017 Cummins 4BT
    1975 Glasply 19.5' Cuddy Merc 488 190 hp
    1997 Campion 525 Open Bow Ski Merc 125 hp outboard
    14' Inflatable sailboat
    16' Colman Fastback canoe

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    • #77
      As others have said, very clean good looking install!

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      • #78
        Finally had a chance to get some time in on the new motor early May, performed the 10 hour break in, oil change and some cruising, all in all about 20 hours. Ended up shortening trip.
        My wife and I went back at the end of June and put on about 480 miles, I forgot to look at the hours. (fuel in Valdez was $5.80 a gallon EKKK!)

        We explored Knight, Naked island and Unakwik for shrimping and fishing.

        All in all new motor is great, no fluid leaks and all is tight. I made some changes from the previous motor and some mistakes... geez

        I installed a O2 sensor under one of the risers top help with tuning and mostly to verify I am not too lean. The senor failed on the first trip as I had the choke set incorrectly and had a couple of start ups with black smoke, which the sensor will not tolerate.

        I adjusted the choke before we launched and it started up instantly, this is after setting for 6 weeks and with the new 12 V fuel pump wired through a oil pressure switch.
        Hot starts are almost instant and warm starts require more cranking, still experimenting with throttle settings for other than a cold start and I think in idle or just above idle position is where it works best, all in all powering the pump through a OP (switch is not a issue in regards to starting). Pumps draws 1.2 Amps deadheaded and OP switch is rated at 15 amps.

        the O2 sensor was interesting, I was able to adjust mixture screws to a 14.6:1 ratio at idle, small changes were noticeable.
        At cruising speed I would see low to mid 13s, which is slightly rich however I think that is ok in a marine application and better than lean.
        I did a few WOT throttle runs and saw 4800 and AFR numbers were in the 12s (the gauge is fluctuating constantly except at idle, so it is difficult to get a exact reading and all you can go by our trends). At WOT it was hesitate and then back off slight, I am sure it could benefit from more fuel at that throttle setting. I may deal with at some point, however I rarely see WOT except to verify propping. Interestingly enough this same prop on the old motor (pre-vortec) hit 4850-4900. Conditions can vary and some tuning would likely put us there, but I could not say that we gained the 30 more HP I was expecting. Not a big deal motor runs great anyway.

        14.6 is at idle
        13.1 is at cruising speed
        3 MPG is misleading as the fuel mileage fluctuates as well, the average at the end of trip is relatively close to 2.2 and I use 2 MPG for trip planning.

        Attached Files
        Last edited by Akgramps; 07-10-2022, 08:46 PM.
        1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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        • #79
          Some success with Halibut, shrimp and some yelloweye rockfish.
          Attached Files
          1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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          • #80
            We had a fuel problem on this last trip, or at least I think it was a fuel problem and not 100% sure its resolved.
            On the way back from Naked island and we had put on ~ 245 miles I had good water and we had been cruising at 4200 RPM for about 20 minutes and all of a sudden had loss of power, the motor did not quit, it would idle but would not accelerate. I happened to be looking a the chartplotter when this happened and noticed the fuel mileage went up when this happened and also noticed the fuel flow gauge was reading zero, pretty good indication of loss of fuel.

            After a few minutes we were able to get going again and 20 minutes later it happened again, we made it back to Valdez, I removed the tank to Racor fuel line and blew through it... seemed ok.
            We headed back out for a 50 mile run to Uankwik and other than a brief stop for glacier ice we ran continuously with out any issues.

            Wer spent a day or two pulling shrimp pots and decided to head back over to Naked to see if we could land some more Halibuts. Another 20 minute run and it happened again, same thing, we got to the fishing spot and we anchored, drifted, moved around and had no issues. After 4 hours we headed back and 17 minutes later we were DITW, this time it would not restart or idle. Water was flat but we are out in the middle. I fire up the kicker, put the Admiral on the helm and go to work. I remove the fuel flow sensor and replace with barded fitting, no help, I finally bypass the oil pressure switch and hotwire the fuel pump, finally get it going, fairly convinced the switch has failed.

            The next morning we pull pots and plan to head back in to Valdez. We cant get on step, we can roll along at 7-10 MPH, welcome to trawler speed...! Its not bad if you have the time.
            We got a bout 15 miles and get in behind Glacier Island And I started nudging the throttle forward slowly, I finally get up to 2800 and we are barely on step...! But much better than 7 MPH. I hold it at that speed for the remaining 35 miles with no problems..

            When we converted form mechanical to electrical fuel pump I replumbed the fuel system, and made some mistakes. The motor/drive we bought had a fuel filter mounted to the block next to the mech fuel pump, the boat cam with a Racor with a drainable bowl. I decided to use both and plumbed them so the pump pulled the fuel through both filters. When I installed the new motor and eclectic pump I pulled fuel through the Racor and pushed fuel through the second filter. This finally dawned on me and when I chatted with Carter they said that is not recommended. Ultimately I removed all the lines and filter, inspected everything, found nothing and installed a new electric pump and eliminated the second filter. We ran it for a couple hours after that ate high RPM and some WOT W/O any issues. I think its fixed, at some point I will bench the pump through the filter and see what happens.
            1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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            • #81
              "we had been cruising at 4200 RPM for about 20 minutes" with a Michigan Motors engine?
              "Joint Venture" '78 midcabin 28, twin 2017 Vortec roller cam "bullet proof" 383/6.3L full roller 350hp engines - You name it, I've either replaced it, restored it, rebuilt it, repainted it or repaired it. That's my job now that I'm retired.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Bill V View Post
                "we had been cruising at 4200 RPM for about 20 minutes" with a Michigan Motors engine?
                Geez Bill, I hate it when you say it like that! Lol.
                it is a new GM longblock. MM was just a vendor in this case. They were good to deal with.

                In Alaska there are many jet boats that powered by gm SBC's. They run for hours at 3800 to 4200. Sometimes higher. Yukon trips can be quite long, if you load the boat with a couple of mosse, that's what it takes. Higher rpm will likely shorten the life of a engine, but running at that rpm if you're propped right shouldn't be a issue.
                1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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                • #83
                  I never ran my Crusaders over 36-3700 except to verify WOT of 48-5000. At 623 hours I broke a rocker arm stud, and at 941 hours a piston come apart. MM's motors come out of the Mexico GM engine plant, the same as all the Crusader Classic 4bbl carb engines and many of the EFI engines, Same for Mercruiser 350 carb and standard EFIstandard engines. Only difference is the color of paint used. There is nothing marine about the internal parts, flat top 4 valve relief Hypereutectic pistons, 5.5 qt oil pans and standard pressure oil pumps. Even the roller cams are no different then many truck engines or have minor differences in lift and duration. Yes they use some "heavy duty" parts like timing chains and oil pump drives but otherwise I consider them nothing but a car engine and not even 4 bolt mains.

                  One of the big reasons that Crusader and Mercruiser insist on using their distributors and require ignition timing at 28* maximum is because the engines don't last at ignition settings used to rate their "advertized" horsepower and is why you don't feel a big increase in power compared to your old engine. Any automotive Vortec engine making 300hp runs around 31-33* of timing. Keep running it 4200 and then when it comes apart let me know and I'll send you the list of parts to build a bullet proof marine engine.

                  After thinking about your comment "In Alaska there are many jet boats that powered by gm SBC's. They run for hours at 3800 to 4200. Sometimes higher. Yukon trips can be quite long, if you load the boat with a couple of moose, that's what it takes. Higher rpm will likely shorten the life of a engine, but running at that rpm if you're propped right shouldn't be a issue." and the issues I had I believe without a doubt that high oil temps caused much of my problems. Running 36-3700 on my new engines (8 qt oil pans) I see 240-250 oil temp and the Crusader probably saw that as well, maybe higher. In Alaska your waters are much colder then the PNW waters. The jet boats could also be running oil coolers too. I'm convinced that the Vortec engine is strong but the limited oil capacity and without oil coolers won't last at 4200 for long, maybe 900 hours.
                  Last edited by Bill V; 07-10-2022, 04:54 PM.
                  "Joint Venture" '78 midcabin 28, twin 2017 Vortec roller cam "bullet proof" 383/6.3L full roller 350hp engines - You name it, I've either replaced it, restored it, rebuilt it, repainted it or repaired it. That's my job now that I'm retired.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Bill V View Post
                    I never ran my Crusaders over 36-3700 except to verify WOT of 48-5000. At 623 hours I broke a rocker arm stud, and at 941 hours a piston come apart. MM's motors come out of the Mexico GM engine plant, the same as all the Crusader Classic 4bbl carb engines and many of the EFI engines, Same for Mercruiser 350 carb and standard EFIstandard engines. Only difference is the color of paint used. There is nothing marine about the internal parts, flat top 4 valve relief Hypereutectic pistons, 5.5 qt oil pans and standard pressure oil pumps. Even the roller cams are no different then many truck engines or have minor differences in lift and duration. Yes they use some "heavy duty" parts like timing chains and oil pump drives but otherwise I consider them nothing but a car engine and not even 4 bolt mains.

                    One of the big reasons that Crusader and Mercruiser insist on using their distributors and require ignition timing at 28* maximum is because the engines don't last at ignition settings used to rate their "advertized" horsepower and is why you don't feel a big increase in power compared to your old engine. Any automotive Vortec engine making 300hp runs around 31-33* of timing. Keep running it 4200 and then when it comes apart let me know and I'll send you the list of parts to build a bullet proof marine engine.

                    After thinking about your comment "In Alaska there are many jet boats that powered by gm SBC's. They run for hours at 3800 to 4200. Sometimes higher. Yukon trips can be quite long, if you load the boat with a couple of moose, that's what it takes. Higher rpm will likely shorten the life of a engine, but running at that rpm if you're propped right shouldn't be a issue." and the issues I had I believe without a doubt that high oil temps caused much of my problems. Running 36-3700 on my new engines (8 qt oil pans) I see 240-250 oil temp and the Crusader probably saw that as well, maybe higher. In Alaska your waters are much colder then the PNW waters. The jet boats could also be running oil coolers too. I'm convinced that the Vortec engine is strong but the limited oil capacity and without oil coolers won't last at 4200 for long, maybe 900 hours.
                    Bill, I appreciate your knowledge on SBC,s. You earned it the hard way and I have read your thread regarding the motors you built, I was contemplating following your lead and duplicating your builds. I simply had/have too much on my plate to take that on at this time, The old motor was 4 B mains and at .040. I could possibly have freshened it up with a hone and set of rings, it may have needed a rebore, I just wouldn't know until I disassembled it. I still have it. I know if I got into it I would have more time & money in compared to a new LB.

                    The new longblock was the easy path and yes its just a "HD" truck motor and I knew that, the 6.2 has 906 heads and Iconel seats, I considered that option however they did not have any available. 4 bolt mains are not necessary for a 300HP motor at the RPMS they typically operated at. If I was building from the pan up, then yep, that's they way to go.

                    I am using the TBolt V ignition system and have seen 32 at full advance, even more, however its a bit hard to pin down as the TB V is constantly trying to maximize the advance against the knock sensor. Full advance timing would be somewhat dependent on fuel with this system. I do not have a OP temp gauge on this boat, it would be nice to have, I dont know but I would say a oil cooler would be rare on a riverboat. The water is cold, still we run T stats and typically I am just under 180 with this engine.

                    This was never meant to be a end all, be all SBC, its just a basic repower, I rarely ran the old motor at 4200, and will likely run this one more conservatively, I did what I did because it has a warranty, if something is going to fail then I would rather have it happen sooner that later, also we had flat water, which can be rare. Frankly I am hoping to see 2K hours if I get 1K I will be happy as that will give me 6 to 7 years. 4200 RPM may shorten its life, but is shouldn't fail at those RPMS. I know yours did, It certainly wasn't from high RPM based on what you said, parts can and do fail.

                    Again I appreciate your insight, however this was more about a fuel issue and I thought some might be interested in how it worked out and the use of AFR gauge.
                    Last edited by Akgramps; 07-11-2022, 09:21 AM.
                    1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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                    • #85
                      I think your AFR gauge is a phenominal idea and if I was keeping my boat I would consider it as an install.
                      "Joint Venture" '78 midcabin 28, twin 2017 Vortec roller cam "bullet proof" 383/6.3L full roller 350hp engines - You name it, I've either replaced it, restored it, rebuilt it, repainted it or repaired it. That's my job now that I'm retired.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Thanks for the motor update and trip report gramps. Glad you had some success with fish and shrimp. Those are beautiful spots to cruise around Unakwik and Naked Is. Hope the fuel issue is the last of the adjustments. Do you normally launch out of Valdez? I thought maybe you said you were in Palmer? If you make it to Whittier let me know and maybe we can meet up. Looks like you really did a great job with the boat and would be cool to see it. We have had several good trips so far but weather held us on land last weekend. Fishing has been slow on the West PWS but maybe the rain will get them running. Did great with shrimp though and looking to go and load up again later this month. We hauled in 15 gallons over the 4th long weekend!
                        Cheers!
                        1986 Glasply 28' long cabin

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by kisutch View Post
                          Thanks for the motor update and trip report gramps. Glad you had some success with fish and shrimp. Those are beautiful spots to cruise around Unakwik and Naked Is. Hope the fuel issue is the last of the adjustments. Do you normally launch out of Valdez? I thought maybe you said you were in Palmer? If you make it to Whittier let me know and maybe we can meet up. Looks like you really did a great job with the boat and would be cool to see it. We have had several good trips so far but weather held us on land last weekend. Fishing has been slow on the West PWS but maybe the rain will get them running. Did great with shrimp though and looking to go and load up again later this month. We hauled in 15 gallons over the 4th long weekend!
                          Cheers!
                          We launch out of Valdez, Fairbanks is home. During the summer we leave the boat down there, on the trailer. It would be nice to have a slip, hard to justify for 3-4 trips a year.
                          We did get over to Whittier last year, I would like to explore that side of the sound, it just takes a lot of fuel. We have about 200 mile range, that would ideally leave about a 40 mile reserve, I hate cutting it close. Unakwik has a lot to explore, I just haven't done any good for halibut in that area, I am sure they are there, I just haven't found them yet....!
                          1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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                          • #88
                            Not worth the slip cost or having a fuzzy bottom by not using it enough. I've run over to Valdez once before and will do it again next season. So far this year I spent a bunch of time getting things dialed in now that I'm up and running again. I looked at MM also for engines but decided to go the expensive route since I didn't have shop space to work in. There was frustration, lost time and stress, however the dealer did make it right in the end. Just took much longer than it should have and several trips back to them. Lessons learned and I know much more about the boat than I did at the start.
                            The Whittier side is better for shrimping and has many great bays/coves to explore. You are equal distance to the middle of the Sound where the fishing gets good around Naked, Smith, E. Knight. Halibut are few and far between in the Northern bays but I did reel in a 140 pounder from the mouth of one last August.
                            1986 Glasply 28' long cabin

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by kisutch View Post
                              Not worth the slip cost or having a fuzzy bottom by not using it enough. I've run over to Valdez once before and will do it again next season. So far this year I spent a bunch of time getting things dialed in now that I'm up and running again. I looked at MM also for engines but decided to go the expensive route since I didn't have shop space to work in. There was frustration, lost time and stress, however the dealer did make it right in the end. Just took much longer than it should have and several trips back to them. Lessons learned and I know much more about the boat than I did at the start.
                              The Whittier side is better for shrimping and has many great bays/coves to explore. You are equal distance to the middle of the Sound where the fishing gets good around Naked, Smith, E. Knight. Halibut are few and far between in the Northern bays but I did reel in a 140 pounder from the mouth of one last August.
                              I just reread your thread on your engine replacements, sounds like your issue with the new install was mostly related to the transmission cooler location? You worked with Alaska Boat Works?
                              My buddy used Odies for his project, (remove jets and install outdrives), not impressed, they used two right hand drives rather than a left and right. Then they neglected to install the shift quadrant and switch to momentarily shut the engine down when shifting! He has to shut the motors off when maneuvering, not a great option in the harbor.

                              We finally found a spot for Halibut at Naked Island, we fished little Smith and the Applegate with no success, it takes awhile to find them. Seems like drifting is the best method when prospecting, seems like a 100' off a spot can make a difference. I am pretty happy with 50 pounders, anything over 80 is a hen and they are the egg layers. The bigger they are the more eggs. Shrimping has been hit or miss, the first year with the boat (2018), we did OK in several areas, 2019 was a little less and 2021 was just unproductive...? This year we did ok in Unakwik and even dropped pots by Little Smith, caught 3, but they were big..!

                              Hoping to make another trip soon, the Richardson is all messed up but sounds like the they have one lane opened.
                              1982 2580 "HI-BOY " IN 2 DEEP 5.7LX ALPHA

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                              • #90
                                Akgramps Yes, I did. Their communication was pretty poor so I was always in the dark about the progress and completion timeline. There were many small errors that amounted to significant problems. These would have been mostly alleviated by doing better QC before releasing it to me. I get the impression that it's pretty hard to find a quality boat mechanic up here talking with various other friends.
                                I'm hoping to be on the water this weekend but will need to wait and see with this unsettled weather. I also prefer drifting and have done pretty good with that. Eventually I'll get more anchor line and experiment with using bait bombs.
                                It's weird how the area around Knight and Naked Is. don't have much shrimp. The habitat seems the same as many other places. I usually don't bother with pots around the middle of the Sound any more.
                                1986 Glasply 28' long cabin

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